30 Comments
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Charles Lee's avatar

This is a piece that very few journalists outside Taiwan and inside Taiwan who couldn't read Mandarin could write. By not mentioning it at all, it illustrated the falsehood that the threat of a Chinese invasion and signaling by Americans to defend Taiwan (or not) drive Taiwanese politics. In fact, they barely matter at all. The only times CCP actions actually influenced Taiwanese politics were when they shot missiles (i.e., potential attack, not threat of invasion) right before key elections, and it backfired on the CCP every signal time. We all know the saying about the mark on insanity, but communism is hardly sane.

What is happening around the world is the backlash against ideological liberalism centered around identity politics. The silent majority can only put up with that pseudo-progressive nonsense for so long. The ideal society is one where people simply didn't care if others were brown, gay, non-binary, and all agree vegans are annoying.

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Kaleidescope's avatar

I have to admit, I laughed when I read the sentence, "First you had the most brawls in the legislature I’ve ever witnessed in my lifetime."

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Angelica Oung's avatar

I have become a brawl connoisseur! It’s actually much more sophisticated and rules-oriented than you might think!

Of course it’s bad and undignified and should stop but…

When there’s a good one, that’s like the Super Bowl for Angelica.

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Synchro's avatar

Is Legislative yuan brawl like pro wrestling in America. Are there ip man moves? Or is that too elegant? Asking for a friend.

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Angelica Oung's avatar

They’ve got their own moves! There’s definitely elements of pro-wrestling. But also quidditch, attritional warfare and Tetris. Maybe I’ll write a post on it one day if there’s interest.

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Synchro's avatar

Definitely interested! Especially rules of engagement, like no eye-gouging, etc.

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Angelica Oung's avatar

I’ll make it happen!

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Charles Lee's avatar

That's the sentence that told me Angelica didn't live in Taiwan during the 90s. They practically had an ambulance on standby outside the Legislative Yuan during sessions.

It was hardly reported on internationally because Italy had a pornstar in its legislature at the time, which was more photogenic news.

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Angelica Oung's avatar

I was a child!

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Synchro's avatar

CNN reports it when there are brawls in the legislative yuan. It usually makes for a nice segue after they have reported on more heavy weight matters. It’s like a spectacle for comic relief

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Viktor's avatar

Liberalism across the world is taking L’s. It’s failed at its promise of making the lives of more people better. All that’s left is fake, insincere virtue signaling and purity tests and people are sick of it. Same garbage in the US.

Calling yourself Chinese is basically the biggest F U you can give the DPP at this point. It also defuses the DPP’s only card, so if that one’s gone, what else does the DPP have to offer normal people?

To make the pendulum swing back to the DPP, they’re going to have to get investments from the US and I don’t see any scenario even post-Trump where the US invests money in Taiwan (vs value extraction). So the trend is going to keep moving to closer ties with the mainland because the DPP and US are offering normal people in Taiwan nothing.

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Bill's avatar
Aug 2Edited

Viktor you

are exactly right!

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Maximal Utility's avatar

I think this is actually totally wrong. ALL incumbents, all over the world, are taking L’s except for ones who have suppressed free media (Orban and Erdogan) or who are benefitting from an anti-Trump wave (Australia and Canada are two examples). I think it’s because rapidly shifting technology is making our systems of government obsolete, and increasingly *all* politicians are unable to deliver on their promises.

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Viktor's avatar

This is a fair perspective, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Liberalism is a super broad term so let me clarify what I mean:

1. The “end of history” style liberalism from Clinton to Obama is dead

2. All liberal democracies are seeing their liberalism reduced. Democrats in the US last year didn’t have a primary, got 3rd parties kicked off ballots, restrict speech, arrest protesters, extended trade wars, etc. Then off the top of my head S Korea martial law, censorship in Europe, anti-immigration in Europe, etc.

3. Liberal cities and policies are basically synonymous with unaffordability and the inability to build things which is an important issue for most people.

People in liberal democracies are desperately looking for an alternative. It’s unfortunate that there are no alternatives in most liberal democracies. So people are going to start looking toward other systems that can do basic things like allow them to afford a home or retire before 70.

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Kurt's avatar

Right.

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Farah's avatar

> To make the pendulum swing back to the DPP, they’re going to have to get investments from the US

from my understanding Taiwan has plenty of savings, pension funds and low government debt that could all be used to invest in Taiwan. American money is not needed

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Viktor's avatar

Thanks for sharing. That makes the DPP’s inability to govern even more frustrating

In relation to the US, because the DPP are not governing well, the anti-Chinese card is losing effectiveness, then what they have left is “we are BFFs with the US”, which people are also losing faith in. Then they need to figure out a way to prove they are BFFs with the US, like a defense guarantee or funding from the US.

You are right that if the DPP just governed then the other points would be moot.

I frankly don’t think Lai wants to, because he is an ideological separatist, and I don’t think he’s a skilled enough politician to do it either.

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Bill's avatar

The 1992 peace accords are the basis for peace. The ROC and the PRC UNOFFICIALLY agreed

1. to disagree in peace,

2. That there is only one China

3. That future generations will solve the problem

4. And until then Taiwan has unchallenged autonomy for an unlimited time

5. If either side declares independence the agreement is voided

The problem is this was an UNOFFICIAL agreement because the two sides don’t recognize each other.

Solution, have ASEAN or Singapore chair an official meeting where the two sides can officially agree without recognizing the other side as China’s government.

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Chon's avatar

There's another dynamic here to be aware of. The 2020 election was a direct consequence of the 2019 HK riots - you had cute, western educated youths singing Les Mis while pushing back against uncouth, dictatorial mainlanders looking to consume their society, their freedoms, their culture.

In 2025, that popular narrative itself is changing. It's not just Taiwanese influencers wow'ed by Shanghai, but young professional HK'ers are now realizing Shenzhen is absolutely amazing, and in many ways a superior place to live, shop, play - and maybe even work.

There are obviously parallels here. Let's be clear, mainland China itself has finally crossed the bar where HK'ers and Taiwanese are asking themselves... "freedom, but at what cost?"

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hmwpl's avatar

While the DPP did take a loss in the Grand Recall, the wins by KMT were only marginal vote % wise even with the aid of TPP. My own view is that DPP has in fact solidfy it's own support base even further into a cult under the mantra of "resist china, protect taiwan". So expect to see Taiwan politics undergo even more division going forward! Angelica, just curious, as a TPP supporter, what will be an acceptable tradeoff to try to resolve cross straits tension?

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Angelica Oung's avatar

I think it’s premature to talk about the conclusion when we haven’t even explored our options. This is the time to learn and explore.

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Alexander Gross's avatar

Hello Angelica! I appreciate your thought out commentary on why people might be voting against the recalls - especially when so much of the news (in english) is focused on why people would vote for the recalls. I’m a freelance journalist who is trying to gather opinions from both sides for an article on the recalls. Would you be willing to answer some other questions I have about the stance of those who voted against the recalls? - from your own personal perspective of course.

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Angelica Oung's avatar

Of course! Email me Angelica.oung@gmail.com

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Chronicle Taiwan's avatar

Lai's intention to double down on the recalls raises an honest question: Is he actually retarded?

Most likely a goose egg coming up on 8/23, but now is not the time to get complacent. This is also the time for the TPP to increase the pressure and awareness on the KP situation. I'm surprised at the relative complacency on this issue. The run up to the 8/23 election is the perfect time to make more noise, and Lai is more vulnerable on this issue than I think anyone realizes. The situation is reaching a boiling point and it is about to boil over.

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Kurt's avatar

This is brilliant, and greatly appreciated. Thanks much.

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Maximal Utility's avatar

Not gonna lie… you definitely make it sound like TPP, and not DPP, is the MAGA-like party. DPP sounds much more similar to Biden-Kamala. Interesting that you see this the other way around. In fact nearly every point you make about the TPP - leader persecuted in a “which hunt”, youth party rapidly shifting to more extreme and authoritarian values, and anti-establishment upset about the “exaggerated accusations” (quotes added to indicate I don’t agree, not that I’m quoting you) of the more liberal party against the conservatives - that all seems super MAGA! Also, being anti-China only to suddenly switch to pro-China because they “get stuff done”, which is funny to happen now that they’re actually really failing economically.

The DPP on the otherhand - establishment liberals who’s outreach seems “manufactured”, “cringe”, and “culty” not brooking legitimate disagreement - these are all the accusations MAGA made of Kamala and Biden!

And it’s worth noting you also were pretty positive on Yoon Suk Yeol, so I’m thinking maybe you’re not the best judge of which parties are fash-leaning? I like a lot of your analysis, but this honestly seems like a blind spot!

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Angelica Oung's avatar

I actually agree! The DPP is dem coded and part of why they are being despised is the playing of identity politics. But you are deceived by the connection to Yoon…in Taiwan it is the DPP that is pro-Yoon (because he is anti-China) and softly sympathetic to his coup attempt. Meanwhile the KMT/TPP despise Yoon.

I was pro-Yoon for reviving Koreas nuclear industry but I’ve NEVER defended him after he went crazy and did the coup.

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Viktor's avatar

Yep the DPP and Democrats lost for the exact same reasons

- Inability to make life affordable for normal people

- Nothing to offer outside of ID pol, virtue signaling and “I’m not [boogeyman]”

The DPP jailing their opposition and abusing the recall system to try to undo an election they lost while lecturing people on democracy just makes them look like huge hypocrites and sore losers.

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JP OB's avatar

Very good thanks for sharing!

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Thijs's avatar

The TPP viewpoint angle is very interesting, especially the changing sentiments across the youth. But to say the majority is saying "we're Chinese" is a bit of a stretch, surveys still show the opposite. It misses the point that all the recall elections were of course seats the KMT won a year ago, it would have been surprising if those same voters would now suddenly support the DPP. The DPP fucked up with the recalls and their campaign, but it's a rejection by KMT/TPP supporters, not the Taiwanese electorate.

This is also supported by the fact the KMT failed to trigger any recalls against DPP legislaturors.

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